prefer to read the conversation?

#43 – using stitches to journal your state of being

Tina: Welcome. You are listening to the InKinship Podcast, a podcast for makers, makers who crave a joy filled, vibrant life on their own terms. And I’m your host, Tina Vandenberg. I have the pleasure of having a special guest with me today. I have Tamanna Rahman. Tamanna, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.

I’m so excited to see you again. Excellent. So I had a class that I shared with Tamanna and I loved her beautiful smile and I loved her infectious enthusiasm. And as a teacher, to have somebody who is in here, who’s got lots of knowledge, but just loves to learn is my take on you. You have not said that to me, but that’s what I believe is the case.

It’s so exciting to have a student that is like, Excited to try and loving the process and has a lot of gumption. And so that was one of the reasons that in the work that you do. And through that class, I got onto your newsletter and, and learned more about the work that you’re doing. And I thought I would love to have you on the show.

Tamanna: Thank you. That’s so great. And I appreciate that description. Yeah, like lots of knowledge. Sure. I’ll take it. But yeah, no, I do love learning. I’m always taking classes. It’s just, I always say that I’m like, community taught rather than self taught. So it’s just people like you and all these amazing people I’ve met through the textile networks that I keep in a growing community.

My skills through and that’s so important to me. So thank you for being part of that network. Now, 

Tina: so speaking of your newsletter and the work that you’re doing, um, Actually, let me back up. I’m going to do a little intro here. So Tamana is a textile artist, a clothes maker, a psychiatric nurse practitioner who specializes in holistic mental health practices.

You integrate craft practices into your mental health work. And you are teaching folks embroidery workshops that relate to mental health, all through your business, Slow Work Sewing. Can you begin by telling us a little bit about that? And then we’re going to back it up and talk about where you got your inspiration from.

But to begin with, give us a little bit of a blurb about what all of that meant. That was a big task, isn’t it? 

Tamanna: Yeah, no, I can. Um, so, Yeah, my work is a mental health clinician. That’s my job. That’s what I’ve been doing since I was like 25. So like 15 years. And, um, I started my own practice a couple years ago.

Um, maybe more than that now, but it was able to go full time in it, um, in the last couple of years. And the reason I really did that was to focus more on my creative practice. Um, And I think COVID was really like an awakening for that. So anyways, I’ll talk about that in a minute, but yeah, so slow work sewing is what I started during that time.

And as sort of, um, in conjunction with my, my actual work, my money earning work and mental health, um, to really have a place to build community and nurture my creative practice. And I started. started teaching like some garment sewing and embroidery and things like that and have just gotten deeper and deeper into the embroidery side of things.

And the part that really interests me about it is thinking about it as, um, more of an abstract sort of form and mark making and stitch. So it’s not really about, um, doing like samplers or designs. It’s kind of digging into all the ways that we experience the world. Um, In the broadest sense, and just kind of figuring out like fun, creative, playful ways to, like, turn that into abstract stitches.

Um, so I do various forms of workshops around that, and that’s really the point of Slow Work Sewing. Um, and then I also used to teach some garment sewing, like really basic stuff that was focused more on honoring our bodies. Um, so it’s always coming from this sort of perspective of kind of mental health, self care, Translation of like personal experience, narrative work, things like that.

Um, yeah, that’s, that’s the summary. 

Tina: I love it. You know what, what came to mind when you were talking is I’ve been personally doing a lot of work on working with my nervous system and regulating that and, and being really present. I mean, I’ve been, this is how this happens, right? Like I’ve been doing it for probably 20 years, but you’re actually

coming back to the same topic, but you’re just getting into this different layer of this different level of it. But when you were talking, one of the beautiful things I’ve been learning when it comes to nervous system regulation is like to alchemize or to express those emotions that you’re feeling or the energy that you’re feeling rather than having it like, you know, stuck in your armpit or something, wherever it’s going to be.

So one of the, um, one of the practices is creating crafting is one of those things because it’s such a present thing, but also, um, Just moving your body. And I thought, as you’re talking, I thought what beautiful synergy between something that is inherently releasing for the things that we’re holding onto.

Right. But also like going in and like finding ways to like, I, I’m, what I’m hearing is like, put it right into the, into the fabric and maybe the content 

Tamanna: as well as the process. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, you’re, you’re exactly right. And I think embroidery is, or like knitting as well is particularly conducive to that because, um, anything where you have that.

Basically repetitive, um, make motion and also like the bilateral use of both of your hands and the hand. I coordination is kind of uniquely coming for your nervous system. So, um, yeah, it’s like having to coordinate all the time between what your two hands are doing, um, to make those marks, the marks that we want to make on the fabric with stitches is, um, is such a, like, the process of it is so therapeutic, but also then if you’re really focused on what is the content that I’m creating, even if you’re just doodling with stitches, um, it just brings a whole different dimension to it.

It’s, it’s amazing. 

Tina: Wow. Right. I can imagine it with just like that synergy. I was talking, I imagine it with just. multiply it however many fold because you have so much intention into what you’re actually placing as well. 

It’s 

Tina: beautiful. Okay. We’re going to get into more of that later, but before we do take us back, take us back to before, um, you don’t have to mention this, but before, before the call started, we were talking about our childhoods and the things that we love to do.

And, uh, talking about, actually we’re talking about early internet days, which was super fun conversation. Yeah. Anyway. Tell us how you have been a maker in your life and who has inspired you. Give us a little 

Tamanna: of your flow. Yeah. So I think that I was thinking about this because of some of the like prompts you sent me in advance.

And I just realized that thinking of myself as a creative has been part of my life basically since I was like the youngest child. Um, and I think it’s cause it was always part of my home life. Like my dad would very much think of himself as like, Science focused and mathematical minded, but he was always like reciting Bengali poetry from like memory and like in dramatic, you know, form, whatever, and which I didn’t understand at all.

But that was like part of the fabric of my life. My mom was always. Like, like just sketching, drawing, and all of my early textile stuff was really from my grandma. So I, she would, she was in Bangladesh, but she would come visit like every year. And I would just have so many memories of her just sitting there, um, like knitting, making, crocheting lace, and she would just, It was like a party trick or something, although I didn’t understand it as such at the time, but she would just make elaborate doilies and lace patterns just from memory, just like sitting there like, and just whip something out and be like, here, you want this?

And I’d be like, that’s amazing, you know, even as a kid. And now I’m like, like, oh my God, like textile life goals, you know, to ever be able to do something like that. Um, so she taught me to crochet, knit, hand sew, everyone around me was always like machine sewing because my mom and my, all the Bengali aunties would always be like making their clothes and things, which weren’t as like readily available as like ready to wear back then in Los Angeles in the like eighties.

So yeah, that was, that was like my earliest memories of textile arts, for sure. 

Tina: That is so much fun. So your mom didn’t pick up the textile loved. Did she sew it or anything 

Tamanna: textile based? She does not do anything textile based though Her and my dad did make me like a Kantha quilt for my birthday a few years ago which is so sweet because they were watching my like infant child full time at the time and then they would just like stay up in the evenings like stitching and stitching and stitching um And the content quilt is like a Bangladeshi, like kind of traditional form where you like stitch together layers and layers of, um, old textiles, like saris and, and things like that.

Um, so they, so that’s still very much like, they would see that as like, a very beautiful. Gift is textiles, you know, anything textile related. Um, that’s what they got me for my wedding gift. Like that’s what they got my mother in law as like a token of our wedding was like a kanta quilt from bangladesh.

So um 

wow, 

Tamanna: always been like a like that has like had so much power throughout my life as the Textiles and the value of that as an art. Yeah, and so with kanta, that’s how 

Tina: you say that kanta. Yeah kanta Yeah, kanta. Okay Um Am I correct in that it’s, you’ve got those layers of fabric and then there are lots of little stitches throughout the whole thing creating like a fabric on its own once you’ve got all these layers together?

Tamanna: Yeah, so there are kind of different ways of thinking about it because a lot of the ones that are very, um, that we really like now in the U. S. and that you see around or in Western cultures are like that really patchwork, like rough shot kind of thing where there’s tons of different textures and patterns and things and that really would have been kind of like the scrappiest version of it that you kind of just are throwing your rags together and like something for use at home and whatever um and the actual like art form version of it is usually more of like a whole a whole cloth quilt with very elaborate designs using those same like running stitches but it’s um really different than the What we think of when we think of like contact quilts or contact kind of clothing that you see a lot now that’s very fashionable.

So, yeah, I think that’s like a really. Western kind of fetishization of like, uh, like third world art, like, I don’t know, like it’s like the scrappy, whatever, instead of like the actual high art form of it, um, that we would actually think of like, this is what content is. Um, yeah. But yeah, so I have some of I have some of like a whole range of those things, right, right.

I wonder, I 

Tina: think it’s something to do with, um, We can sort of romanticize right that idea and we have such a fast paced life now Yeah, and we have this romantic view Life that is more simple that doesn’t have the money for all of these big large pieces of fabric Whatever. He doesn’t have the ability to get it whatever and so they’re They’re there, and they’re creating something of beauty out of this thing that they have.

I think there’s such a romantic view to that, and I think it speaks to, in some way, our larger desire to, like, slow it down. Right. 

Tamanna: Yeah. Yeah, I think there’s a duality to it, because I 100 percent kind of connect with that and I spent a lot of my 20s in a, I don’t know, kind of like back to the land sort of aesthetic of, like I lived in West Virginia in a farmhouse and I was like gardening and trying to grow all my own food and, you know, Recycling my gray water, literally composting human waste.

Like that is the level to which I took it. So it’s bizarre that I didn’t explore clothes making during that time. Cause I was making my own cheese, making my own bread, churning butter, like all that stuff. So I, like, I totally get that kind of fascination, but I also think There’s this flip side of sort of, um, that you can conveniently ignore the, the poverty and inequity and the injustice that that’s born out of, um, and the role that we, many of us and more privileged positions, like, play in perpetuating that.

So I think it’s like, great to be like, wow, I love your quilts or whatever. But, um, You know, there’s tens of thousands of garment workers right now that are being like charged with false charges by these fast fast fast fashion companies for like speaking out against conditions in their workplace, you know, so if you’re gonna like love our quilts, you should also support our struggles for, uh, you know, safe and fair workplace conditions.

So, I always kind of like. Pull that in, you know? 

Tina: Yep. Yep. And I can totally hear the duality of it. And I think that we as humans have enough space. We are so infinitely diverse. I can’t think of a better word. We are so infinite in our ability. Yeah. Space for both of those things. Yeah, exactly. To both honor and to protect where we can.

Tamanna: Yeah. And I think, um, that aesthetic and, um, that creative appreciation, you know, like art is like such an entry point for kind of building those connections. So it’s like, maybe that’s the first time you became, you know, Aware of these creative traditions from another place, and if that inspires you to figure out like more to learn more about that place and what’s happening with A textile work there, then great, you know, 

Tina: possibility of opening it up to honor.

Yeah, 100%. I hear that. I hear that. And I love, um, several years ago. I fell in love with Natalie Channon of, uh, Alabama Channon. Thank you. I like something Channon. Yeah. And I devoured all of her books and I sewed many garments by hand. And I like to work with knit so it was also like this perfect marriage for me.

And I love, um, when you described your parents working together in the evening, making this gorgeous dress. Quilt for you. I thought of how she talks about like the family of stitches, right? Together and like in there. And I thought I just got shivers. So I wanted to share that. That’s really beautiful.

Tamanna: Yeah. I’ve made, um, a few like Alabama, Shannon type garments as well. I like got really into it. Printed the stencils, cut them out of like polyurethane sheets. tried all different ways of like, I couldn’t get an airbrush gun, but I tried all kinds of ways of like painting the fabric. Like it never came out like the samples, you know, because I just didn’t have access to that level of materials and finishes, but it was like, like it’s my, I learned so much from those processes of, um, applique and reverse applique and, um, Just all, all the kinds of different hand embellishment techniques that she teaches.

So that was like one of my first introductions to embroidery kind of practice and, and hand stitching garments. Cause like, I was like, would never even thought that was a possibility is, but it’s so easy. I feel like she just becomes very approachable. 

Tina: And I love the texture. So one of her things, one of the things that I fell so fully in love with is all the texture that’s created.

So I loved her tone on tone, applique and reverse applique as well as I just, I love quiet pattern often. 

Tamanna: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, anyways, I have this piece that I just said that’s like all just like white punch needle embroidery, but it’s all just like different textures. Um, and I’m just getting like more into that because I think early in my creative process, it was very much like just trying to make things that were like really out there or like, or like I just made a lot of garments that I would never actually wear.

Um, I think every, like, early garment sewist goes through that phase where they, like, start buying all these quilting cottons and things, like, cool prints, and you can’t wear that. I don’t know. So, there’s that, but, um, even in, like, embroidery and textile work, it was, It took a while to kind of quiet down and find what like really felt like me, which was more of that like textural contrast or like really simple shapes.

And, um, like part of the courses I teach is very much like stream of consciousness, like go crazy, like do all this stuff. And so that’s like a lot of the workshops. So when I teach the whole course, the last one is all about editing. So it’s like, yes, do the stream of consciousness stuff, like make all the marks.

But then how do we actually edit that down into something that feels cohesive and makes a statement and is meaningful and, um, conveys something through rather than all the noise. Um, so that’s, that’s been something I’ve been trying to find. 

Tina: Wow. So it’s almost like you’re taking all of those stitches and you’re creating a poem out of them at the end.

Tamanna: That’s right. That’s really interesting. Yeah. 

Tina: Validating it down. It felt very much like, yeah, being to me in a way. 

Tamanna: Yeah, yeah, that is a really, I’ve never thought about it that way. That’s, that’s a really good insight, like how that single word, those few words can convey so many layers of meaning and texture.

Right. 

Tina: So tell us more. Um, since you mentioned the course, tell us more about the online workshops that you’re doing. It feels like an apropos time for that. And then we’ll go back into more of your history. 

Tamanna: Yeah, um, I’m planning one for the next year. And again, I know that at the beginning, you’re like your business, slow work sewing, and I was like, uh, imposter syndrome.

It’s so not a business. It’s so not like something I try to make money from or even sustain all the time. Sometimes my life is crazy and I’ll just forget about slow work sewing for six to eight months. And then I just have some space or a lot of creative energy. That’s the space I’m in right now. So I’m like, I’m going to teach 50 classes next year, you know, but the one that I’m really excited about is, is reworking the whole narrative embroidery course.

Um, so usually that’s like a month long. It’s like an hour a week or an hour and a half. And we kind of start out with talking about what does narrative embroidery mean. Throughout the process of the course, we create these embroidery journals. So it’s really just meant to be the way you would use any journal, um, to sketch your ideas, to process emotions, to think about, to record what happened in your day.

So, I’ve kept journals since I was like five years old. So I really looked back through all those and I was like, what have I used this space for? So we talk about how do you do that in stitch? And how do you keep going with it? Um, and then the second class is history and memory. So we think about ways to kind of dig back into past memories and evoke those things.

And, um, how do we make visual markers for those things? And throughout the whole course, you’re kind of developing your own visual vocabulary because once you are in that daily practice, and that’s what I ask of people through the month, like even if it’s five minutes, just show, Just practice and show up, because that’s how you develop any kind of voice.

Um, you’ll find yourself being drawn again and again to the same stitches, to the same patterns, to the same repetitions or the same shapes. Um, and that’s, And I think my instinct early on was like, no, I’m just doing the same thing over and over. I have to do something new, something different. But like, no, that’s what you do.

Like, like lean into those things that you’re drawn to because something is emerging from that. So, um, so in history, memory, look at the past, then we look at the body in the third class. So it’s like really what you were talking about, like grounding into the body. That’s the class I just taught at Tatter was like that one session was just.

sensory exercises for like sight, touch, taste, sound and like doing fun little activities around that. And then the last one is the creative process. And that’s the one I was talking about where we’re really like editing and we look at a bunch of different artists works to see What creates, especially multidisciplinary artists.

So like what creates that cohesive feeling across, um, like a body of work. Um, and how do you keep kind of developing that in your own work? So that’s, that’s the one I’ve taught, but I get really bored of teaching the same thing again. So I’m going to rework that and kind of come up with all different exercises and prompts and things.

So it’s, it’s interesting for me. Right. Right. 

Tina: Well, you mentioned you said it while you were talking. Okay. I am like tripping over my own tongue here because one, that was so beautiful and like so much depth to,

to the whole picture of it. Right. So much depth to the meaning behind it and the intention. And then like that curated editing process and all of that, like, just, I just, I’m in awe. That’s beautiful. And it’s certainly sort of the process I’ve been on in my own clothing making journey so I can, I can, it’s really hitting for me as well.

But you 

Tina: also said to lean into where you’re drawn because something is trying to emerge is one of the sentences you said that was really struck out at me and I thought, 

um, 

Tina: Um, maybe your flow with your business and I’m going to call it a business. Maybe your flow with your business is exactly how it’s supposed to be, or maybe you’re supposed to dip in and dip out.

And what if we just gave ourselves permission and now you’re not saying that you’re not, but like just to the larger, larger audience, even what if we just gave ourselves permission to do whatever we’re doing, however is right for us. So like if it feels like a slog, like for me, it feels like a slog to do social media, Don’t do social media.

Yeah. What is that gaining me? It’s not getting me anything, but like, occasionally I feel like posting a pretty picture. So I’ll do that. And that’s great. Do that. But if it doesn’t, then don’t. Right. And so like, it feels good to be silent on your business for a year because you’re in a particular kind of year.

Then all of a sudden you’re like, I have things to share. Then like, I think that’s exactly how it’s supposed to be. And I don’t, I didn’t hear from you necessarily that you’re beating yourself up over it, but I certainly have in my past. And I just. I just think that giving ourselves the grace to be like, this is what it is.

And it’s perfect. 

Tamanna: Yeah. Yeah. I think I’ve been like connecting to that a lot more is that, um, you know, there’s intended to be an ebb and flow to our lives and, um, shifts. And I think right now, um, I’m really talking to a lot of my clients about that because inevitably at this time of year, I just turned the light on cause it just got, it’s like storming now.

And it’s like pitch black in the middle of the day, everyone’s really down and depressed and like, they want to stay indoors. Um, or they think that because they want to do less, something’s wrong with them and they’re depressed and it’s. And I just think, like, we are actually supposed to move with the seasons.

Every other living thing is resting right now, but because we’re in a society that tells us no matter what’s happening in nature, in the world, in your lives, you got to get up and go to work nine to five and do the exact same thing. Every single day, um, we think there’s something wrong with us, you know?

And it’s like, Oh, this is actually supposed to be a season of rest and reflection and recuperating and maybe doing less and, um, being less productive. So I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Like you go to the things that you need to do at different times. I’ve been thinking about that with friendships, too.

I’ve been reading a lot of books about, uh, friendships and adult friendships, and I think that’s a really hard thing. Like, I hear from a lot of people, as well, to make friendships like what you had in your teens and twenties. Yeah. Just. Realized like friendships kind of have been flow in your life as well.

Like sometimes you grow distant from people that you unexpectedly reconnect with. Um, sometimes people leave your life and it’s okay too, you know? Um, so I’ve just been making a lot of peace with the absences and, um, long breaks from creativity versus periods of huge creative energy, which is how it’s supposed to be.

Tina: I’m with you 100%. I, um, probably eight or nine years ago, I did, I found this woman online, Kate Northrup in her book, Do Less, which is all about really connect it. There are lots of parts to it, but one particular heavy vein through it is connecting to our cycles. So not only just the cycles of nature and the moon cycles and the wheel of the year and all of that, but also connecting to our own internal cycles.

As far as like, if you are a menstruating woman, right, you have a particular kind of hormonal cycle. And like, it really talks about like, tuning into where your days of, of high energy, where your days of, I just want to rest, where your days of like, I want to eat everything in the house, where those days are and being, um, Um, being in, in honoring them and being in communion with those days rather than like, I shouldn’t feel this way.

So like, this is more information than anybody needs, but like on day 18 and 19 of my cycle, I’m starving. I’m just ravenous. Yeah. And as someone who’s always had a little more weight than maybe I’ve wanted, although I really have a lot of body love, so this doesn’t generally, knock me down, but sometimes it does, right?

On day 18 and 19, all of a sudden I want to eat everything. And I’m like, Oh no, it always triggers this. Like I’m going to start eating and never stop. And then I’m like, hold on. It’s just 18 and 19. It’s okay. And it will pass like everything it will pass, you know? And so then now I just, I just honor it and I just eat whatever I want those two days.

Cause I’m like, this is what my body wants. Just honor it. 

Tamanna: Yeah, it’s developing that self knowledge with age too, because you’ve seen yourself go through so many cycles and patterns of things that you know. Yourself and how you’re going to come out of it on the other side. Um, and I think for me, that’s really pertinent because I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was like in my teens and that pattern of having very dramatic cycles was something that was really, really present and also scary through like my teens and twenties.

Um, and it’s not like as much a part of my life now, but I remember being in like a group, like a therapy group when I was in my twenties. Um, Was a therapist who was probably like tailor made for me because he was like really literary and he would just say these things so I remember something he said that was, um, even on or not a like in an episode where tutored by our madness, meaning like you kind of learn from those period, you kind of take on characteristics from those periods.

Um, and the reason I say all this is because there’s a lot, my brain is really, really obsessive and I wonder if that comes, even though I’m super stable in terms of mood, function, I wonder if that comes from some of that, like, past history of mania. Like, when I started sewing, um, my, like, and first discovered all these textile arts, I was so obsessed with it that I, like, Couldn’t eat.

I couldn’t sleep. Like I would, I would just like think about stuff. And then like, I would, if I slept, I would dream about like fabric. It was, it’s like to an unhealthy level. Um, and it always has like a, but it always has a rhythm to it. So first it feels kind of good. I’m like, you’re high and you’re like doing all this stuff.

And then it kind of reaches a fever pitch for me where it becomes really uncomfortable. And like, I can’t stop it, but then I just like kind of, I’m like, okay, because I know I’m going to come down and it’s going to like balance out, but I had to do that with like many, many things over the last few years, um, not for years, like a decade, and kind of be fearful of like, oh my God, I might be coming unstable, like what’s happening.

But then I just realized like, no, this is actually just part of my brain. That’s probably always going to be here and I can kind of use it to my advantage and, um, take what I need from that period when I have this incredibly high energy where I’m going to read 50 books about embroidery at the same time and like, like that’s, yeah.

And it’s. Weirdly, like, this one hasn’t ebbed as much. I mean, I don’t have those frenetic things anymore where I can’t sleep because I’m, like, thinking about embroidery, but I still kind of do it, like, every waking moment of my life. Like, I wake up in the morning and I read some book about textiles. I’m like, take my daughter to school and I have 10 minutes.

I’m just like, okay, I’m going to knit a little bit. And then I’m, Sitting here waiting to get on the call with you and I start like sewing a seam real quick, you know, I see your serger on in the background. So I’m assuming Same thing, but it’s just like always built into my life, you know, so anyways, that’s a long kind of winded thing of being like Cyclical patterns have been very present for me and, um, and I’ve kind of learned how to use them in my creative process, you know, so, yeah.

And it’s been a lot of work. 

Tina: Right, right, right. Right. And the acceptance, right, the acceptance and you, and of course you have to develop that trust, that trust that it’s true. It is a cycle. It’s going to cycle out to someplace where you’re more comfortable or you’re more okay with that. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tamanna: But it always comes back down.

I’ve done that before with cooking, baking, permaculture. I got like obsessed with it. I’ve been obsessed with permaculture for a while where my friends like stop talking to me because they’re like, we do not want to hear about like weird vegetable variety, like perennial vegetable varieties. Like, can you talk about anything else?

I’m like, I really can’t right now because I heard there’s like sea kale at this like, like nursery two hours away. I got to drive there this weekend. Yeah, it’s um, a lot happens during those times. Like, I bet, you know, 

Tina: I hope it’s okay that I find such delight in it. 

Tamanna: Yeah, I mean, I do too. 

Tina: It’s great. 

Tamanna: It’s good, you know.

I love raw people. Yeah, I mean. I do. I’m an intense person, that is like. Yeah. Like at our wedding. At all the toasts that people gave. They’re like, um, so Brian and Tamanna are both really, really intense. Like everyone just kept using that word. So I was like, can you guys say something else about me? This makes me sound like, like, I don’t know what it makes me sound like very intense, I guess, but I’d rather be intense than bland.

Let’s say that. Exactly. Awake, then asleep. Yeah. Beautiful ways of putting things. Yes. I’ll say that. You’re awake, I’m asleep. 

Tina: I love it. You know, what is so interesting to me as you’re talking is, um, I have some similar experiences. Aspects in that I also get bored if I teach the same thing over and over again.

So I have worked in that acceptance of my own business that I have to come to and say, all right, I want, I wanted to have these flagship things that I do that could gain some momentum because of things I continue to do, but they have to shift for me. So with these, which is where you and I met is one of those things.

I’m so excited for it because I’ve kept the structure and I’m changing the contents as far as I can. the exact thing that we’re doing. And it still leaves me so much excitement, which I’m absolutely adoring. So I can completely relate on that level of wanting that excitement. How do you keep your own practice now exciting?

How does that flow happen for you? 

Tamanna: I think doing a lot of Different type of creative things and taking in a lot of different creative, um, experiences is just like a constant source of energy and inspiration. So I read a ton and that’s always been a huge part of my life is like reading and writing.

Um, I probably read like two to three books a week. And, um, that’s for me, like that really informs my visual works. I don’t know why or how, maybe that’s what my course is all about. Cause I’m all, cause a big part of it is like translating experiences into words, stream of consciousness, Mark’s stitch. So maybe that’s just like how my brain works, but I’m always reading.

And then it just gives me an idea for something I want to do in my visual work. And, um, I’m always doing a million different things. So I think that like helps my brain too. So I, if I get tired of embroidery, I can make a garment or I’ll knit or I’ll weave or I’ll do punch needle or I’ll like dye something or raw or like, you know, um, then I started getting into painting with gouache and that was so cool because it just gave me a whole different way that I started thinking about stitches.

Um, so it’s just every medium I think you explore is just gives so much back to the initial one, like the core thing that you feel the most tied to for me, which is always going to be textiles, not even fibers like knitting and stuff. I feel like knitting is like my side hobby. Like, I just do that sometimes, even though I do it every day.

Um, it’s really like garment making. And hand stitching. That’s always going to be.

Tina: I relate to that completely as well. Um, I also do, right. I do. I knit and I learned how to crochet first. And then I learned how to knit. I, um, when I was, I was 37 when I had my little boy and I was drowning and I had postpartum depression, which I’d never felt in my life. So I didn’t know what that was, but I felt like I was under the ice for about a year and a half.

He also didn’t sleep through the night. And I breastfed till he was three. And so me too. I breastfed 

Tamanna: till my daughter was three. So 

Tina: yeah, it’s a lot, a lot of years. It is. So now to this day, I, I can’t handle him like rushing at me all the time. I’m like, don’t rush at me. I can’t take it. Right. Like, I think I’m like sensory overloaded from that time, but we’re actually, there’s probably a lot of depth that we could get into on that, but we’re going to set that aside for now.

And so I was drowning and I, for the first time in my life felt, um, like I was under the ice and not as a mother per se, but as, uh, the adult woman, Tina, that I had become. And so I was a crocheter and I was a proud crocheter. Like, like I don’t knit, I crochet, right? And then there was a knit shop in town and, um, they had Wednesday night knitting.

 I started to set that day aside for myself, which was a difficult thing in the marriage that I was in, which was difficult all the way around, but I held onto it like a 

Right? So I went to this knitting circle every Wednesday and it, it sort of saved my life.

And, um, That was the life thing. 

Tamanna: You were like 

Tina: clutched to it and let yourself 

Tamanna: be pulled out. Yeah. 

Tina: Yeah, absolutely. And I was unrelenting in that, like, I’m not budging for this at all. And it was the only way that that would work in the relationship that I had developed so I would go to the knitting class and while I love crochet for a lot of reasons, I actually really love the motion of it.

I don’t really love the fabric that gets created. Like, I like some things I like potholders and things like that. And I’ve made a few different shawls that I actually like quite a lot, but they look like knitting, they don’t look like crochet. And so I really love. I love the fabric that knitting creates more than I do the fabric that crochet creates.

And so I finally learned from Betty Davis, not the famous Betty Davis, but this 85 year old swearing sailor of a woman that was at the knitting class who had a VW bug with eyelashes. Have you ever seen those? Yes, I have. All over and talk about everybody in town. Like she just was a delight in like a very crass way, which I find so much fun.

And so she taught me how to knit. And so then I would knit something and she’d be like, let me see that and she’d grab it and she’d drop a stitch all the way to the bottom. And I’d be like, what did you just do, Betty Davis? And she’s like, no, fix it. And I’m like, no, no. And so then she’d show me and I’d be like, you know, my heart’s palpitating and the whole thing, but I can now read my knitting like nobody’s business, Betty Davis.

She’s an excellent teacher. 

Tamanna: Yeah, that is the coolest thing that I got from knitting. Again, how all these different ways of working influence your, your primary craft or whatever, right? Um, building a fabric, like that idea of making fabric stitch by stitch by stitch is first of all, so intoxicating to someone that always wants to be like, where did this come from?

But how do you do, how do you get back and back and back to the, to the Core thing, like back to the sheep, you know, back to like, can I grow my own cotton and then like, spin it? Can I like, you know, that’s the level that I want to get to. So just get knitting and then understanding how to read fabric. Um, and the infinite things that people came up with to do over the like millennia to do with knitting from one piece of string, as far as like, as like just aesthetic components.

It’s just. So mind boggling. And so I really love knitting now, even though I will never call myself a knitter. I’m a sewist. I just can’t be a knitter, but just like you said, why can’t you be a knitter? Um, okay. This is going to be very, 

go ahead, 

Tamanna: offend us, go for it, whatever. It’s like, um, it’s cause knitting ladies at knitting stores are always so mean to me.

Um, and like a lot of people. I’ve. That I have talked to since then have had this experience. And then I read this long thread by Jen Hewitt, um, who just interviewed lots of like, um, women of color in like craft spaces. And they were just describing this experience again and again and again, where they felt very like judged or excluded or like outright hostility in like these spaces.

And for me, that was like really in knitting stores, particularly in like knitting circles. And even as I found knitting, groups that are more aligned with me and that I really like. Like, I don’t know, there’s often, there’s often this like, judgmental or like, negative, I don’t know, there’s something that I don’t find in the sewing community where I feel like everyone’s just like, super open, like so excited that anyone else wants to sew a garment, so helpful, so like, welcome into the, like, clan, you know?

Um, and I wonder if that’s because so many Like knitting seems like something everybody does like all these people are knitting and so people who are like really into knitting like really want to claim that space or something like, well you’re not really a knitter you’re just using acrylic from Joanne’s like what like I don’t know like there is so much judgment.

And it’s like, I don’t know. I just don’t like that. That’s not my, like, approach or ethos to life. I want to, like, so I, for that reason, I have a hard time. Like, my, I never go to my local knitting shop anymore because every time I’ve been there, they’ve been so incredibly rude to me, even though I’m buying their really expensive yarn.

Um, Like the first project I ever did, I was really excited to go in and show it to them. And I was just like, I’m on this like state step of the thing. Like I just started my very first ever, like project. And of course I was like, I’m going to knit a sweater and not like a hat or a scarf. So I was like, how I was like, is it possible to take out some stitches if you did it wrong?

That’s the level I was at, you know? Yeah, and the lady just grabs it and she’s like, well, I mean, it looks like you did a lot wrong. I would just rip all this out if I was you. She’s like, she’s like, on what pattern are you even using? Like, what is that? And she’s like, she’s like, I don’t think you’re using the right yarn.

Meanwhile, the lady who sold me that yarn from that shop for this pattern is standing like for the side, but she’s like, we’re, and she’s like, and how did you wind this? Like, does this ball is way too tight. Like this is whatever. Like, so she just started saying thing after thing, I did wrong. Um, and I was literally saying like, wow, I was really looking forward to working on this weekend.

And now I kind of never want to knit again. Um, and then the one time, every time I went there, she was kind of like that. And it’s like, why do I keep coming here? But it’s the only knitting shop in town that has nice yarn. Anyways, so not to dwell on anything negative, but I just find the sewing community so much more welcoming and wonderful and 

Tina: whatever. So. I am so glad and I am so sorry that that was that is and continues to be your experience. I 

Tamanna: think that really sucks. It’s fine. It’s like, you know, every space doesn’t have to be like kumbaya.

It’s like you just navigate it like I like get what you need to from it. 

It’s just like not the community I feel like I can identify with as like my personal, you know, like I’m a, I’m a sewist. 

Tina: Right. Right. That’s who I am. I definitely think of myself as a knitting crochet person on the side.

It’s definitely my side gig. I am a, I’m a garment sewist as well. Yeah. And I also very random connection here. I also have composted human waste. Oh my God. Why? 

Tamanna: Like that’s crazy. 

Tina: So I have, um, I definitely have back to the earth energy about me for sure. Yeah, I’ve 

Tamanna: heard many things on your podcast about your like homesteading 

Tina: terrain skills.

When I was 21 and I moved to Alaska, I squatted in a cabin on the side of a, of a mountain for half a year. So like, yeah, I come by this really early. And. When I first, uh, divorced from my, my ex husband, I had this little house on wheels, which I still have it, but now it’s in its own home, permanent home that has running water and all these things, but for two years, it did not.

And so we were on, my little boy and I were on a friend’s farm, which was a beautiful, really protective space for us to be in, but it was partially off grid, not fully. We had a little bit of electricity, but not enough for like a refrigerator, but enough for like, Some lights and things like that. And so I heated with wood and we compost, we had a composting toilet and we composted and, and I did have water as well.

So that’s why it’s like semi off grid, but that how 

Tamanna: unique, like how many people have had that experience together? I know. And like, given how much of that stuff I was doing back then, it seems really strange to me that I didn’t get into clothes making. I always think about that, like that. I wish I had discovered it sooner and had that frenzied relationship to it.

Sooner so that I could have just then had to be part of my life all these years like I fit I feel like I missed out on meeting my great love until I was like in my 30s, you know Um, that’s fine. We’re like, you know

Tina: Tell us about when it did reignite or ignite for you. You said you did learn some from your grandmother, but when did it become your practice? 

Tamanna: It was really during Covid. I think that I just started discovering it more and I took a sewing class like in 2018. Um, and then immediately had that experience.

Like I went to my first class and I was like, I. Love this. I want to do this like 24 hours a day. Um, I think I’ve been searching for that creative passion. Like I’ve always been creative. Like I’ve always been making art since I was young, um, various forms, like artists books, even though I didn’t know to call it that until I was in college was just like something I did throughout my entire life, um, And then I kept like taking classes, like ceramics.

I took a blacksmithing class and made like night, like a knife. Um, you know, like I just, all these different things trying to find. What I, I don’t know, something. And then when I took the sewing class, it was just like, it just connected. Um, and then it just kind of grew from there. So I took a long break from the garment sewing part when I was pregnant because I didn’t like, I was so new to it.

There’s no way in hell I was going to be able to make things that were But my body that was changing every few days, um, and then right out. 

Tina: And it is really, it can be really hard to make something that, you know, has sort of a finite life to be something that you do long term. And I, um, I do sort of wish that we as humans could embrace that more, but I, I am the same way.

Like it’s hard for me to make something if I know something’s going to shift. 

Tamanna: Well, I heard you talking about having less Attachment to things because of losing things multiple times. Oh, like on one of your podcasts. 

Yeah. 

Tamanna: Um, and I was thinking about that. Cause I was like, I’ve never, ever, ever looked at all these journals that I have in boxes right behind me ever again.

Like I finished one, I never opened it again, but I’ve been carrying them around with me for 30 years, you know, like every place I move, I’ve lived all over the country, different places in the world, I just take them with me everywhere. And they’re so like totemic for me, like they are a thing I cannot let go of.

And I’m like, if these burned up, I don’t know who I’d be like, but anyway. You’ve already assimilated it though. You already are those books. Yeah. Yeah. And then I started again during the pandemic, like right after I gave birth to my daughter, you know, the pandemic started like a couple of months later. Um, and I think like a lot of people did during that time.

It made me really, really. Realize like, oh, we actually could live differently. And that’s around the time I started my private practice because I just realized like, I don’t want to wait until I’m retired or like my life has gone by to be like, oh, now I’ll do creative things. Now I’ll be an artist. Now I’ll explore this other side of my life.

I’m like, this is it. This is all I’ve got. And I don’t have to live this way where I spend every single waking moment working to make money. Or exhausted from working. Um, like what if I could find a way to just like do as little as I need to do to make the minimum amount of money I can to be comfortable and then just spend the rest of my time.

Like what if I could flip that on its head and then just spend the rest of my time like making creative work. Um, so I’ve been working on that for the last like five years and I’m finally to that point where. Like it’s a really good balance. I’ve really figured out like how many patients do I need to see a day or a week, like down to a science, like to be able to pay my bills and save a little bit and the rest of the time I just do creative stuff.

Tina: I love it. And like you said, that creative stuff is feeding your practice as well. And in so many ways, not only just for your mental health, but also what you can offer your clients. And I just think, um, there’s so much beauty to that. I, earlier you mentioned how you, when you read, you get inspiration for all of the things that you are going to create, or you get inspiration for your textile work and things like that.

And I was thinking of, have you ever read Julia Cameron’s The Artist’s Way? I have. Yeah. I have. And I was thinking about her, her, one of the things that she asked you to do, I don’t remember how she calls what she says about it, but I have a frog in my throat too. Sorry about that. Okay. But I was thinking about how she talks about to take yourself on that day, right?

Like to get out of your normal routine and which is what you’re doing in the form of a book and to experience the world in a different way. And then you’ve got these different, you’ve got different perspectives you can bring back on lenses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought of that. Yeah. 

Tamanna: That makes a ton of sense.

Yeah. I have like, like, um, small pile of books that I, and that’s one of them. And then Beth Pickens books are like two of them. So, um, uh, make your art no matter what, and your art will save your life, which were like really, really great books for artists. And then, um, the creative act, uh, Rick Rubens, that’s like classic, but so beautiful.

And then, um, Yeah. Elizabeth Gilbert’s Big Magic is like, is really profound for me because I have experienced that feeling of like some out of body, like otherworldly sort of inspiration, like seeming to strike you. And I have never read a book where that feeling was so like perfectly down to the detail described on so many other artists.

writer’s stories where they also felt that and I was like, Oh my God, maybe this is a thing. Like I just thought that way. I mean, I know she describes it as God, which it wouldn’t be necessarily my framework, but I’ve always felt that there’d just be these flashes of something that feel like apart from the self, like from the other realm, the liminal space, like the dream world, whatever, that like suddenly strike me and I’m like, I have to like make this thing or write this thing right now.

And I know it’s going to be good. Like, I just know, like, this is a thing that has been like given to me. Yeah. Um, and the creative act like Rick Rubin’s book, like he talks about that too. And I’m like, wow, like all these creative people have experienced this. I love that book. And I love, like, I have these few books that are like my, my guides to like artistic. Yeah. Oh, and Find Your Artistic Voice by Lisa Condon. I really like that one too.

Tina: Oh, very nice. So I’ve only, of those, I’ve only read Artists, The Artist’s Way and Big Magic, but I also loved, I wonder when you talk about The Muse or Whatever inspiration that’s coming to you. Have you also had, I think, what I recall from that book, as she’s talked about, that people, you know, if you aren’t picking up what the muse is putting down, she’ll just go somewhere else and they’ll pick it up.

Yeah. Have you had that experience where like, you have an idea, but you just, For whatever reason, you’re not, in the present moment, you can’t handle it. You’re not, you’re not giving yourself the permission, whatever, and it, and you, it shows up somewhere else in the world, completed. Have you ever had that happen to you?

Yes. Oh 

Tamanna: my God. I feel so weird to say it. Like, Yeah. Like, I feel like it’s like a really woo woo, like weird thing, like I’m delusional or whatever. Rick Rubin says that too in his book. He’s like, Yeah. Like if you don’t, if you don’t take that thing was given to you, it’ll find its home somewhere else. And then she talks about that a lot, but I had to like during the pandemic, I had this like novella or like thing that I started writing and I’ve never written fiction, but it felt like it was just suddenly alive in me and I had that feeling for the first time.

Ever where people talk about like the characters were just doing things I didn’t expect or they had this life of their own and I was just like writing and writing and writing and I don’t know why I let it go. Like I didn’t, I just didn’t work that piece and like something, and like a couple years later I feel like something came out that was like exactly the I, the thing I was writing and had the idea for.

Um, like to some, like down to like some very weird details where I was like, Whoa, that big magic thing just happened. And I was trying to tell him and he’s like, you’re crazy. 

Tina: You’re not, I mean, I can’t, I’m not qualified to say one way or the other. I’m just kidding. But, um, but you are not that same thing has happened to me.

And I very resonated with it in her book for certain. 

Tamanna: What has happened to you? I’m really curious. Would you share 

Tina: or like briefly? I don’t know if I have an exact, I just, I don’t know that I can pinpoint an exact. If I do, I’ll share it in another podcast. But I definitely have multiple times I’ve had it where I have an idea, but like, for whatever reason, it’s generally that I have blocked myself from the ability to do it from the beginning.

All the variety of reasons why we don’t actually jump on something, um, and then later I’m like, Oh, that was that thing I wanted to do. And now it’s already done, which I do believe that we can still do the things that we were going to do because I think we all have a different voice that we’re going to offer it.

Um, but I can’t, I’ll think of a specific, I don’t 

Tamanna: have a specific in mind though. But you know what she says that like if you leave it for too long and then you go back to it and you can like try and try and try it but it’s kind of dead. It’s like a husk and it’s not going to come back to life. That’s what happened.

Like at some point I tried to go back to it. And it was just like gone. It was like a, it was like an inert thing, you know, it’s like, all right, rest in peace. Right. 

Tina: And just let it, let it be. And it’s sort of about that permission, right? Like, okay, this is rest in peace. I love that. Yeah. Oh, Tuna, I could talk to you for a very long time.

I have so many more questions, but. I don’t want to keep you forever. And so I do have two questions I want to ask you before we finish. And one of them, I know we, we did not touch on a million things that we could have touched on. But one of the things I like to explore on the podcast is what do you do on a day to day basis?

That brings joy or ease or peace into your life that you know that if you don’t do it, your life isn’t going to go as well as if you do. And whatever that definition of well is, obviously. 

Tamanna: Yeah. Um, I’m thinking about when you asked Barry this question and then she just described this elaborate routine and I was like, holy crap, I did not appreciate.

Back when I didn’t have a child, like enough, like, cause I want to emulate that life so bad, but honestly for me, okay. Wellness is like, I have to get enough sleep or I’ll go. Like I sleep a lot and I know that I have to do that and I like forced and I like would not let myself in my 20s because I wanted to do everything and now I’m like nine hours of sleep minimum.

Like I need that to stay sane. Um, I got to take my meds every day. That’s like something I have to do or I’ll go. Yeah. Literally crazy , um, . Um, I love you. Like, it’s so basic, you know, like, I have to eat sleep. Mm-hmm . Get some kind of like, and like I have to do something creative every day. Yeah. Um, and I have to read.

If I don’t read, I like, feel like, um, you know, like weightless in some way. Like I just, I feel like, oh, I’m like just floating away. Like, I need to like ground myself and like have that weight of like. The examined life or whatever, you know, like, um, and then the joy is just like being with my kid. Like, you know, you get to kind of rediscover the world through someone who is seeing it for the first time and re examine everything you believe and actual knowledge, like every little tiny thing, you know, you’re passing on to them, re learning those things as well.

So that’s just such a, that’s been such an amazing experience of, and joyful experience. 

Yeah. 

Tina: Yeah, 

very nice. 

Tina: I think those basics are so hard, right? Because you know how many times, even though I talk about it and I like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna change this habit I have, but do you know how many times after I put my little boy to sleep, because we read every night, so there’s always that, he knows that like, I’m pretty stickler on schedule for him for the most part.

Um, but if we’re reading a good book and he’s like, just one more chapter, I’m like, okay, but that’s it. Just one more. Yeah. We’ll read that. We read four more after that. Cause it’s a, it’s a hard thing for me. So 

yeah. 

Tina: Once I get him to bed, finally, uh, usually late cause we’re reading good books. I, I have all these things I’m going to do, right.

It’s this going to be this expansive evening. I typically like really only having an hour, but it’s going to be this evening full of all sorts of things. And then I end up.

I don’t even know what right so or I stay up way too late and then I’m way too tired and I’ve had an autoimmune disorder in the last couple of years, and I, I also have to sleep. I was the mother, the brand new mother who never napped to my child was, uh, Of tiny infant because I’m like, I got to do stuff because he’s sleeping right now.

So I have to do things, which I think contribute in to the postpartum depression, quite honestly. Like it was, but it was the autoimmune thing that happened to me that made me realize how vital sleep is. And so I think they seem really rote and basic, but they’re really important. 

Tamanna: Yeah, those are the things I mean, those are the things I always talk to all of my patients about right like sleep, um, sleep, exercise, nutrition, substances and stress like those are like these five like things when you can’t control one, like you’re a new mom and you can’t sleep, or you have a really stressful job and you can’t control You can’t reduce the level of stress, like the more focus we can put on some of those other pillars during those times really help like bolster your wellness.

So I, um, I know that I need to focus on those things. I’m not always great at it, but there are some that I, like, do not let slide, like, for any kind of mood disorder, like sleep. Is the main regulator of mood. So I know that to be a functioning, stable, healthy adult and partner and mom and professional, like I have to sleep.

I just, even if I want to stay up all night and do creative things and be a bohemian, like. I hope I didn’t just waste my last thing, you know? 

Tina: I do know. I do. And yeah, I do. I hear that. I appreciate that. So the last question I’m going to ask you is when I ask everyone, what do you wish people knew deeper in their hearts that you think maybe they don’t?

Tamanna: I think I touched on this already, but, um, that you do not have to keep living the way that you think you have to live, um, meaning that. A lot of times we think like we have to do a certain thing or like this is just the way that it is. Um, and oftentimes there are so many different things that you could be doing, um, that might mean like radically altering your life in some way, or what it looks like, but.

Um, you know, like I, like, like, this is it, this is all we have, we can’t go back. Like, um, and that just feels to me like, like an invitation to figure out what you want to look back and have done the most of, um, and like, can there be little changes? Like, can you work a little bit less and still be comfortable and make time to do that special thing that you don’t have time for?

Or, um, can you, like, there’s just. There’s just so many ways that we could be changing our lives. And I think COVID really opened up the possibility of that. Like I know so many people who moved to different places, who completely changed jobs, who started new relationships, who ended relationships. Got divorced and we’re like, just realized, oh, I don’t have to be in this situation just because I’ve done it for so long.

Um, it just shook up everything. And I think that was a, in some ways from some people, it was a really good thing. And I think we, if we just like think a little bit deeper, I think we all know, like, we don’t have to just live this particular life that’s been handed to us. Like you actually have a lot of agency, create different ways of living.

So that would be my, that would be my thing. That’s profound. 

Tina: Oh, I have thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you and I know that people that are listening are going to want to find out more about what you offer and more about what you’re up to. Where can they find out information about you? 

Tamanna: Um, Instagram is the best place.

Um, it’s at slow.work sewing. Um, my, we were talking about this before we started, but I never update my website, but it does exist. Slow work sewing.com, slow work sewing@gmail.com. Like if you wanna email me, I would love to have any kind of more conversations. And then if you join my mailing list, that is usually where I.

Kind of talk about any upcoming courses and things like that. Um, so I’m going to do that narrative embroidery embroidery one next year. And then I’m also thinking about doing like, uh, Weird like mystical esoterica one that I’m still like thinking through because I’ve just been really into esoteric symbols and things lately.

Give us a tiny example. Well, I’ve just been, I, I’m very political. That’s like been a huge part of my life. And, um, I’ve just think that like a lot of the world as we like go into more and more political chaos is descending into like these symbols and things like almost from medieval ages, especially.

Like the right wing has all these weird symbols that they use to mean different things like tattoos that they have that are literally from the Christian crusades and like crazy stuff. But anyways, and I think the left wing is doing that too. And that’s where I would definitely identify. I feel like we’ve always had those weird symbols and things as well.

But I also see people on the left or on the more hippie side. Like going deeper into deeper into these things that like, were like very niche when I, when we were younger, like tarot is like a super, super like mainstream thing now. And for me, that was like, just like a carnival thing and like, People like I know are like casting spells and like doing like becoming like modern witches and like all this stuff that sounds like really weird to me.

But I think like people are like hearkening back to these really primal, like urges, like connection. Um, I’m just really fascinated by what’s happening in these cultural shifts right now. And, um, I think it’d be really cool to make like an embroidery sampler that was like symbols that you personally connect with in your life.

So I’m working on that. I don’t know what it’s going to 

look like really 

Tina: yet. I love it. This is not unique to me per se, but I do, I recently purchased because I like Oracle cards myself. Tarot is not my favorite. It’s too structured for me, but I like Oracle cards in general. And, uh, I think it was called talismans, something like that, but it’s all different symbols.

And then it’s got, it’s got these little parchment papers that come with it. But when you draw your cards, you know, you have all these symbols and then you, you trace those symbols onto your parchment to like be meaningful of what that draw, that card spread was. And it’s been really beautiful. And 

Tamanna: they’re, they’re symbols that are exactly what I’m talking about.

Okay. I need to like talk to you more and like find out about this. Cause I, like I said, I need to read extensively, get all the forms of like knowledge I can about this, and then distill it down into like a one hour course. 

Right. 

Tina: That is so fun. And it’s so fun to hear your excitement around it. And that is exactly why it’s so beautiful is that enthusiasm. Thank 

Tamanna: you so much for having me. This has been so fun. It 

Tina: has been. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it.