In Kinship - A podcast for makers
who crave a vibrant life on their own terms

Show Notes

Episode #18 - Turning Self-sabotage into Attunement

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Do you ever do this? You meditate, get really clear about where you want to go and who you want to be and you make a plan.

A realistic plan, for crying out loud! Not one of those pie-in-the-sky plans you used to make, no a plan you can actually achieve by putting one foot in front of the other.

And you feel so good, patting yourself on the back, ready to usher in change, and then…15 minutes after you decide to not go out to eat this week because you’re budgeting your money in a different, life-affirming, good-for-future-you kind of way, your best friend texts with a “wanna meet for dinner tomorrow night?”. And your inner rebellion rears her head and says YES!!!…and let’s go to the GOOD restaurant, and get drinks. Blowing your newfound budget out of the water, moments after you set it.

Yeah, me too.

My guest Laureen Nowlan-Card has some beautiful, grace-filled insight into why we do that and how to work with it.  We don’t just talk about it though.  We work through it…and it gets REAL.

In this episode, we take a closer look at how our subconscious mind is wired to protect us and avoid change, even if that change is something we know is good for us. We examine the six dimensions of self – body, emotion, spirit, thoughts, energy, and belief – and how to address self-sabotage through practical steps that can help both sides of ourselves come to an agreement.

Laureen also offers listeners her six-senses guide to help us attune to ourselves.

Email Laureen at and ask for her Six-Senses Guide


Laureen Nowlan-Card

Eighteen years into her career as a Trial Attorney,Laureen Nowlan-Card decided she wanted to use her “soft skills” and ability to see the magnificence in everyone to coach women to achieve their greatest potential. 

She is the creator of Heart of the Heroine and The Feminine Freedom Solution, a Certified Women’s Empowerment Coach (since 2014), an Emotional Liberation Facilitator (since 2017), Speaker Trainer (since 2016), Podcast Host, Yogini and devoted Mom

Laureen is on a mission to change the world one woman at a time, by supporting women to share their ideas in both their personal and professional lives. Laureen guides women to release their self-doubt and limiting beliefs, and to work with their emotions so they can attain increased joy and peace, and create a life they love.

Laureen also leads women’s public speaking training, where she creates a safe and inspiring container for women to unleash the brilliance of their voices and ideas. Laureen’s podcast, Women Leading Change, is dedicated to amplifying the voices of women who are leading positive change in the World.  Laureen is also the founder of The Awakened Woman’s Evolution Group, a Community for Women in Business and Leadership which she describes as “a soft place to land when the world feels hard”.

Mentioned in the Show

Email Laureen at and ask for her Six-Senses Guide





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Have you ever dreamed about coming to a sewing retreat?  Gathering with other women, talking, laughing, getting deep, and soaking in the spa pool…all while getting creative, learning a thing or two and working with your hands?

I have just the thing for you!  This October (2023) we’re meeting for our semi-annual clothing sewing retreat on Mackinac Island in Michigan, US.

The Knit Pants of Your Dreams – Sewing Retreat held Oct 15 – 19
Sometimes, we like to wear pants.  And by golly, if those pants fit us perfectly and look professional, have pockets and are comfortable! SOLD.  Jump on the link and check it out!

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Laureen Nowlan-Card

Hello, and welcome to the in kinship podcast today. I have a special episode for you. It’s a little bit of a departure from our normal kind of an episode. But I think you’re going to love it.

Back on episode 14, I talked about. Apathy and excellence and perfectionism. And when I was talking about that, I mentioned. Then I sometimes have some difficulty. Not all the time. I’m for the most part, I’m pretty goal setting, achieving human . But occasionally I will set a goal, like I’ve created a budget for myself. 

And I say, don’t want to spend more than I have in a certain category. And then it seems like immediately I blow that budget. Right. Like, sort of in a grandiose way. And so I had mentioned that in episode 14, And then I put it out to you, my listeners and said, share with me your experience in. Goal-setting or trying to make positive change for yourself. And then this like self sabotage that happens. Once you do that. 

Well, My dear friend Laureen Nowlan-Card reached out to me and said, I’ve got some great content around self sabotage, and I would love to talk about it on the podcast. And I thought, well, that’s perfect. The. It’d be so much fun. I have known Loreen for, I don’t know. I think we decided about four or five years. 

And I worked with her in various different capacities, we were in a mastermind together. And then I also went through one of her programs called the heart of the heroine. Which was deep and powerful for me. And she is now doing work online called feminine freedom. She has a free Facebook group called the awakened woman’s evolution. 

You can jump on the show notes to find out more about that group. If you’d like. 

But she works with women. to Find their power to reclaim themselves in the world to find more of themselves in their lives and to remember who they are and heal some of that childhood wounding. So on today’s episode, I came up with a fake scenario. 

For us to work through. As you hear this, as I’m listening to it, as I edit it. The fake scenario is going to sound a little childish. At least that was the judgment I had on myself, which probably relates to the judgment that I have when I don’t meet my goals, then I’m behaving in some sort of a childish way. 

Which wow. Once you get into this episode, you’ll see how that fits right in 

to what Laureen and I talk about. So I come up with a hypothetical situation. 

And Laureen takes some time to work me through. What it might mean, how I might heal it. and ways I can move forward. And then. Our conversation takes a turn that I did not expect. 

As always, when you start to really look at yourself, And determine. 

Why it is you feel a certain way about something. There’s the opportunity to go deep. And that’s exactly what we did. I didn’t expect that to be the case. And I wasn’t certain. And you’re going to hear that a little in this podcast. 

I wasn’t certain that I wanted to leave it in the podcast. It felt very vulnerable and very open. For everyone. to listen to. 

But I think it’s really valuable. And I think it shows the power. of doing inner child work. And the power of attuning to your own body and your own self. 

And it really demonstrates in this beautiful way, the work that Laureen is doing in the world. And so in our episode, She shares several different exercises that she uses. She also offers all of you. Her six senses guide. 

And you can click on the show notes and you’ll find a link to her email. And all you need to do is ask for that and she’ll send it to. 

So. Without further ado. 

Bring on the vulnerability. 

You are listening to the in kinship podcast, a podcast for makers. Makers who crave a vibrant joy filled. 

Fully alive life. On their own terms. 

I am your host, Tina VanDenburg. Thanks for being here. Let’s get started. But before we do a quick word from our sponsor. Today’s episode is sponsored by kinship handwork. My sewing business. You probably know this, cause I haven’t talking about it time or two on the podcast, but we have a retreat coming up this fall. 

October 15th through the 19th on Mackinac island in Michigan. 

This is a sewing retreat and I would love it. If you would join us, it’s a small intimate retreat, only 12 people. And we just have a couple of spaces left and I’d love to have you there. You can click on the show notes to get a link, to find out all about the retreat, all the details, all the things we’re going to do. 

Or you can log on to And click on retreats. And no. Let’s get on with our show 

Tina: On today’s show, I have Laureen Nowlan-Card joining me. Laureen, welcome to the show.

Laureen: Thank you. Hi, Tina. Oh,

Tina: I’ve known Laureen for, oh, I don’t know. Five or six years, probably. Is it that long?

Laureen: That long? It could be. Yeah. At least four.

Tina: Yeah, let’s say four. So a couple of years ago, not four years ago, but maybe two or three, I did a program that you were offering and I’m gonna ask you to share more about the programs that you offer now in a moment, but I did a program with Laureen several years ago called the heart of the heroine.

 In that journey, had some pretty profound healing around some childhood programming, that I had.

And this matters because a few weeks ago, I had a solo podcast where I was talking about Apathy and control and finding that sweet balance of both striving for excellence and not holding yourself to perfectionism. And in that podcast, I asked my audience to respond to me, their experience with working with self sabotage.

So it talks about you make a plan and you’re excited to make this new workout plan go or this new and you immediately then go and eat a bunch of ice cream or

 Don’t work out or blow your money, whatever it might be, those things that like that rebellious streak that flares

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: And you had responded to that question.

And I thought, how much fun would it be to have Laureen the show?

Laureen: Yes. It’s always fun to talk with you.

Tina: So here we are. And we’re going to get into self sabotage, but I wonder if you might start us off with telling us about the work that you’re doing in the world and, maybe just a little bit about yourself.

Laureen: Sure. I am trained as a lawyer and I am also trained as a coach. So I am this unicorn of lawyer coach and I work with women who are. in transformation, looking for change or are having change happen to them. My business is called Transformations and Transitions Life Coaching. And my program that I’m currently running is what used to be Heart of the Heroine, and still in my heart is Heart of the Heroine.

I’ve Rebranded as called feminine freedom. So it’s shorter catch here. But it is all about the heart of the heroine and finding our feminine freedom. Often at midlife, but I work with women who want more of them in their lives, more authenticity, more of the real them. And they’re tired of performing and showing up as something else that they’re not and coping.

With the world around them. So I work in the area of transformation, transitions, change, and women of soul. 

Tina: That is really beautiful. I’ve known and worked with you as a friend for several years and did the Heart of the Heroine, but I hadn’t heard it articulated quite that way. And I just thought, where do I sign up? That’s what I thought.

Laureen: right. Yeah. Yeah. I I’ve done a deep dive over the last I suppose as a result of my own midlife, What I call a midlife awakening and moved into, healing my patriarchy wounds, my, childhood wounds and reprogramming myself for. Sustainable, authentic, living and success on my terms.

And that’s what Feminine Freedom is about. And just to complete the thought, I also want to invite women into, community. Community is really important to me and especially when women are doing healing work or reclaiming their personal power. I also have a. Facebook group because it’s easy, the easiest platform for me to do that on.

And it’s called the awakened woman’s evolution.

Tina: Very nice. And I will put a link to that in the show notes. So if you’re listening right now and you want to check that out, stay with us and listen to the podcast, but then jump on the show notes and check out that Facebook group.

I love that. And I’m struck by, I’ll try not to get into too many rabbit trails here, but I’m struck by the idea that our work is not so different. And I think that even though I come about it from a aspect of being a maker, what my tagline for the podcast is for makers who crave a vibrant life on their own terms.

Laureen: Oh, love it. 

Tina: It’s this idea of that we have more autonomy in our lives than we take credit for. And also that we crave freedom. And I think that we can give ourselves freedom. And I think you probably agree with that same concept, especially when we heal the wounds that are holding us back.

Laureen: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I think we’re all makers in a way. We’re all creating with our lives,

Tina: Oh, yay. I’m so glad you’re here. Okay. So I pose the question to my audience on what is your experience working with or. I guess I told him that I was going to do some exploration of my own into the ways that Tina can be a little rebellious when just call this out. This is this is something I work with quite often.

And so I will create a beautiful plan. And I, sometimes I can adhere to that plan and I can follow through and that feels amazing. And sometimes this little rebellious Tina is like, Oh no, you don’t get to put any control on me. I am not doing what you just said. And of course this is all happening inside my own brain.

And so I had posed this question 

Laureen: I always like to ask the question if this. Behavior has a positive purpose. What is it? So if your rebellion, your resistance, your self sabotage has a positive purpose, what is it?

Tina: My Surface answer to you right now The first thing that comes to mind is that they were and this is a very broad aspects I’m not thinking of something exactly but is Its freedom.

 It’s the idea of not being controlled even by myself,

Laureen: Exactly. Yeah. And that’s reminiscent of like teenage behavior, right? I think of it and I’m in between having a conversation around this versus getting into the process of it. Um, But I, think of it as the teenager And then the next step up being like the queen.

 So you know about maiden, mother, and crone.

Tina: Yes.

Laureen: those kind of phases in life. And I think there’s a fourth phase, which has come about more in the modern era of queen. So it’s the young woman, the mother phase, the queen phase. And then the crone. I think probably when you see this coming up, it’s like you’re in between. You’re not yet. Completely aligned with your queen

Tina: Yeah.

Laureen: because your queen is still telling your teenager, your maiden what to do. And she is still rebelling. So what is the maiden still needing in order to grow into alignment with her queen?

Tina: I don’t know if I know the answer to that

Laureen: Right? Yeah. Okay. So to go back to the process then so you said that freedom is what you’re Rebellion or yourself sabotage wants right? So this splitting of purpose within you. What does that feel like?

Tina: just like the pure, like the pure feeling of it.

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: It feels sort of, I’m going to answer it from the aspect of when I, Reb rebelliously immediately sabotage my plan. It feels giddy and a little like getting away with something and like my butt’s wiggling over here, right? Like a

Laureen: Yeah. Yeah. 

Tina: That’s how it feels. Brings a little smile to my face

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: in the moment.

Laureen: Cheeky and a little bit naughty and yeah, get away with something. And then how does it feel when you’ve not met the goal that you wanted to meet?

Tina: Awful. I feel very disappointed and I feel if I’m going to catastrophize it. So in a moment I probably do, I can gain perspective on it later. But at the moment I’m like, I’m never going to make my goals. I’m never going to reach what I want to do. It’s never going to happen. It just, it feels like I have failed myself on the

 Make it like the biggest feeling that it feels

Laureen: yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I know you’re not alone. So in the end after you get this kind of glee, there is this disappointment Amen. And you don’t meet your goal, so in not meeting your goal, what is that positive purpose? If that had a positive purpose, what would it be?

Tina: make it so that. Nothing changes.

Laureen: Right?

So we have, we are wired to avoid change. We have a lot of different human dynamics at play here, but one of them is change is perceived as dangerous. Our psyche is wired to keep us safe and safety includes physical social and emotional. Love, safety and belonging are basic human needs.

And according to Maslow’s hierarchy, you cannot move up the pyramid. Maslow’s hierarchy has a hierarchy of needs of human needs that we all have. You can’t move up unless you’ve met your basic foundational needs. Self actualization is at the very top and self esteem and self worth are in between and achieving goals are in between self actualization and the base needs of love, safety, and belonging.

So who you are right now and what you’re being and what you’re doing, you have survived, whether it’s good, bad. Sometimes people will stay even in abusive relationships because they know they can survive. And this is not conscious. Let me just say it’s subconscious. It is our subconscious mind keeping us safe.

 And so it’s hard to imagine that a person would stay in what is actually a dangerous situation only because they know they’ve survived it. But that is what our subconscious mind does because it doesn’t know the difference. All it knows is I have survived. It’s based on the past. I have survived the past.

In this scenario, therefore, I can survive it again tomorrow. But change is completely unknown. I don’t, and the mind says, I don’t know if I can survive that. She’s telling me it’s going to be good, but I don’t know that. And so the subconscious mind says, Nope, that’s new. That’s different. I can’t do that.

I will find a way to sabotage that change. And that’s what self sabotage is. And so it’s not even self. It is you are doing it for a positive purpose. It’s not even really sabotage. It is safety keeping. is your guard. Some people call it your prison guard. Valerie Rain, who wrote Patriarchy Stress Disorder, talks about your prison guard. what would it look like to make that change in a way that you feel safe to do it? So this is how we move forward slowly.

Tina: Without a direct example to pull from, It probably would look like making space in that change for both free, naughty behavior and also progress towards my goal at the same time.

 Like allowing both of those things to happen and have that be the plan, 

Laureen: okay. Awesome. So what we could do is look at how we can have both of those things be present. And that’s a type of coaching I do called parts coaching. So you’ve basically got two parts of yourself that are wanting to exist in the same space at the same time and they’re conflicting.

And it’s about allowing. Each part to make space for the other and doing it for short periods of time. And allowing that if you don’t like it, you can go back. Something like that. And again, we’re not dealing with a specific example, but something like that would look like tina, your teenage part, what does she need?

We would ask her in the session and have her say specifically what she needs. And it might look like something like on a day when it’s sunny outside and I want to go skinny dipping, you need to let me go.

Tina: I thought for sure you’re going to say it was a Tiffany CD.

Laureen: Okay, you can play Tiffany while you go skinny dipping. Yeah,

Tina: Yeah.

Laureen: And then the queen, what does your queen need? We actually go into the embodiment of it. Your queen, what does she need? She needs more structure and some planning and needs her teen to her maiden to step up when she asks her to do some things.

 And it’s about coming to agreement. So can we allow both pieces? To have their truth for a short period of time, like for the next week and telling your subconscious and if you don’t like it if we try this change and we put a specific change in place so this is how it’s going to be, we make a plan, everybody agrees to the plan, the maiden, the queen all those parts of Tina and, it’s.

And then we have a set period of time. If you don’t like it, you can go back to the way it was at any time. So there is no risk, there is no tying you in to make it look like danger to the subconscious mind. So it’s about creating a safe place so your subconscious mind doesn’t need to rebel. Doesn’t need to tell you that alert, there’s danger. And it’s always subjective, right? So what comes into play is our own past experience, right? Whether or not we’ve had trauma, whether or not we’ve had experiences that. Make this change even more dangerous for us. You know what I’m saying?

 If you if it feels like something you’ve had in the past happened to you, then it’s going to need more compassion, more space, more time to go slowly into that. And I think a lot of goal setting from from the eighties on has been about set your goal. Do it. Just do it. And there’s not a lot of space for the rebellion for the subconscious mind and it’s running the show 95% of the time. And then what happens is we end up feeling like crap like there’s something wrong with us because everybody else in the world is out there setting goals and just doing it.

Tina: right, 

Laureen: but it’s not true. It’s not true.


so that’s how we deal with the whole woman. Like I, I love all the parts of human beings that we have all these multidimensional pieces and we can’t not listen to parts of ourselves. Like we need to deal with the whole person.

Tina: I love that idea. it feels very inclusive in my own little community of my own mind, right? So I like the idea of. allowing a compromise between the two and still making progress and not having it be so cut and dry.

 As you were just talking something else came to mind. So I thought sometimes the rebellion takes a little different look. And I wonder if there’s anything different that comes up for you on this. And sometimes the rebellion is more angry and it’s more but I want that thing that I’ve just been told.

I can’t right. Okay. So let’s just say as an example I’ve made a budget and I’ve decided I’m not going to eat out for the next week. And then it seems like immediately I want to go and eat out. And it seems like actually what happens is like a friend asks if I can go out to dinner with them.

And then that rebellion kicks in the sense of why can’t I go out to dinner? Like I should be able to go out to dinner with them so I wonder if that’s any different than what we just talked about.

Laureen: Not really. When the emotion is strong I like to tap into the emotions, which is a part of who we are. So maybe I should back up just a tiny bit. And that is that when I talk about the whole person it’s past, present, and future. And what they’re aspiring towards their highest self, but also in those timeframes, there is six dimensions of self that I believe in, and that is I call it besties. So it’s body emotion spirit or soul thoughts, energy and belief best be. So what does your body feel around that? What’s the. The body energy around that emotion. I want to go out and eat out.

Why can’t I? What? Yeah. Why? Why can’t I go with my friend?

Tina: And it probably hits on the idea of freedom again, right? Being, feeling trapped that I don’t have the ability to make the choice I want to make.

Laureen: Okay. How about the emotion? So the emotion is anger.

Tina: Yep.

Laureen: In terms of decoding the anger, so there’s seven heavy emotions and anger is one of them. Anger and every emotion wants something for you again. There’s no actual sabotage. It’s always in your in service of you. What does your anger want for you?

Tina: To be able to go and have fun.

Laureen: Okay. So anger usually comes up when there’s a boundary violation or You’re feeling disempowered somewhere where you want to have more empowerment Okay, disempowerment? You’re feeling

Tina: that I’ve made a choice to bring my spending into some sort of a budget and that budget isn’t allowing me to do this thing that I want to do with a friend in this example.

Laureen: okay. So your budget is disempowering your freedom. Is there any spiritual or soul issue around it? Are you aware of any connection in that realm?

Tina: I don’t know if I know what you mean.

Laureen: You would, if you, if there was a connection in that realm, you would know. Let’s skip that 1 for now, we’ll come back thoughts. What’s the thought in your mind? You’ve said is I want to be able to go and do this with my friend. I don’t like this imposed budget.

Right. Okay. And the energy because it’s all coming from you.

 What’s the energy that you’re experiencing?

Tina: When I’m feeling angry, that energy,

Laureen: So this is like a vibratory energy like what is, what are you aware of in your body and around your body?

Tina: I, I guess I’m as you know, we’re sort of working with a pretend situation here. So I’m trying to imagine how that

Laureen: Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard, isn’t it?

Tina: a little bit, but I love this because I wanted everyone listening to have the ability to perhaps work through some of this in their own selves as they’re doing this. And I think then.

Having an example is a great idea. I think that if I were to imagine this situation, cause it certainly has happened to me before I would imagine that the energy around me is. Fast and jagged.

Laureen: Yeah. Fast. Jagged. Hot. Probably a little bit like intense, like fire. And so the energy piece just for your audience is both coming at you. Have you ever experienced energy coming at you from other people or sources? And then there’s the energy that you’re putting out, right?

So there’s hot, jagged, hot fiery energy that you’re experiencing inside you. Put it out to other people’s places and sources around you. And then finally belief. Because you can’t go out with your friend because you have this imposed budget. What do you make that mean? About you.

Tina: I probably would make it mean something along the lines of

probably some sort of self worth, right? Some sort of self value that I can’t afford right now, even though probably I could afford it, but I’m choosing to spend my money in a different way. So something in feeling less than because I can’t decide to spend money this way.

Laureen: Okay. And what does that mean about other people? Anything?

Tina: The only thing that comes up for me is the idea that the person that wants to go has the means to go, or at least the perceived means to go. And I’ve decided not to. And again, like I’m accepting the idea that I’ve put these parameters on myself and I’ve decided not to spend my money that way. Which is important because I have a different.

Response to something when I truly just have no money to do it right.

 Different when I’ve got this little pot of money and I’m choosing not to spend it in a way that I want to in the moment, if that makes any sense.

Laureen: Yeah, totally.

Tina: So I think it would mean that she has more than I do probably on some base level.

Laureen: Mm hmm. 

Tina: And then it would probably relate back to a self-value thing of why don’t I have this 

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: wrong with me kind of thing?

Laureen: Yeah. Thank you. And are you making it mean anything about the world?

Tina: Oh Whoa, let’s see

Laureen: Your imaginary scenario

Tina: I don’t think so. I think it really hits on my own self worth my own Everyone else can but I can’t

Laureen: right?

Tina: of a thing, right? So maybe that’s about the world. I’m not sure

Laureen: Yeah. I think it could be. That kind of sounds a bit to me like and again, in a coaching session, I would never put words in your mouth, but it sounds a bit like we might arrive at a place where you think the world is unfair.

Tina: oh 

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: maybe

Laureen: Yeah.

 So in terms of sharing with your audience, those are the six levels best be of self

Tina: To reiterate so B was body

Laureen: body

Tina: E

Laureen: Emotion

Tina: Emotion. S.

Laureen: spirit soul.

Tina: T was thoughts.

Laureen: Yes. Be belief

Tina: Belief.

Laureen: and then e energy.

Tina: Energy. And you took me through asking what my belief, or whatever I was struggling with, what that felt like in each of those realms.

Laureen: Yeah.

Exactly. And this is it’s like a super six sense of mindfulness, that I’ve been experiencing and experimenting with myself and my clients. And it feels really full and whole to continue to come back to ourselves in all those dimensions. Because what happens, you’ve heard me preach about patriarchy, but what happens to a woman and growing up in a patriarchy is that she’s taught that she’s worthless.

That’s the underlying message in many different ways. It comes at us. So we are not as worthy, but the reality is that we’ve always been worthy, we’re born worthy and nothing we do or don’t do will make us more or less worthy. We are worthy as we are, but we look for validation to make ourselves worthy in the external world.

That’s just what we do to survive as we grow up and we go through the various stages of growing up. And I actually just did a Facebook live inside my group about the midlife awakening. And I talked about those different stages. So then we get to this place where we are tired of being validated from the external world.

It’s not doing it for us anymore. We want to come back to ourselves. And how do we come back to ourselves? It’s a practice of continuously over and over again, orienting to our whole selves. And so for me, that’s all those different dimensions. So when I ask you like it sounds simple enough, I’ve got this teen in me that’s rebelling and I’ve got the queen and that’s the overarching dynamic that’s going on.

But if you come back into the fullness of that and the wholeness of that, it’s much more than that. Right.

And if you can pay attention to all those things inside yourself, instead of looking at the external world, how does that shift things for you? It’s all about you.

A quick word from our sponsor today’s podcast is sponsored by kinship handwork. My sewing and retreat business. 

Here in Northern Michigan. 

I teach sewing classes online. You can jump on the website, kinship, and click on. 

online workshops. I teach both courses that are prerecorded, that you can listen to at your leisure. And I also am just about to begin doing live workshops in my new sewing studio. I just got some. Really beefed up internet. So I’m ready to do that. I’m ready to work through some really great sewing projects with you. Online, sewing clothing. 

Clothing to fit the beautiful body that you already have. But today, I want to talk about the retreat that I’m having on Mackinaw island. This fall. So. The retreat that we’re doing in Mackinac island is October 15th through the 19th. And we have just a couple of spots. left. The retreat closes for registration in August. So make sure that you check it all out, make your plans and. 

Get on board before August. We’re going to meet for five days and four nights on Mackinaw island. We’re going. And to do beautiful things like. Circle up in the morning and get deep about our feelings and our emotions. We are going to do Qoya dance in the afternoon and set some intentions. We’re going to, sew knit pants, you’re going to learn, how to sew knit pants, and how to fit it really well to your body, and then make another pair. 

With some changes. Because one of the things I love about sewing. Is you get to do it on your own terms. So I love to teach how to sew a pattern kind of straight up as it is a basic core patterns, kind of my style. And then once you have those core patterns developed, I love to then take it and hack it into all different things that you love to wear. 

And that’s what we’re going to work on at the retreat. To find all the details. Go to and click on retreats. And I hope to see you there. I do want to do the very quickest little plug to. 

Coming out this coming week. I’m. Launching a brand new program. It’s going to be an let’s actually do this, kind of group for people who are interested in having vibrancy, and joy in their lives. For people who already believe that we have the power to influence how we experience life and you’re tired of just learning about it Yeah, tired of just reading and listening you want to actually implement it Not for the week but for a lifetime So jump on the website when you get a chance it’s not probably out yet but it’s going to be any time now And you’re going to look for the program called embody your joy I would love to have you join me in that monthly program Kinship And now onto our show

Tina: So when you get intentional or clear about your own dimensions and your own emotions and feelings and thoughts around something, and then we talk about the exercise we did first, where we had. In my example, I’ve got the Teenager Rebellion, if you will, and the Queen and they both have a need and how can we make those needs meet and give that a timeline and allow them both to exist at the same time and have that agreement come about.

 Is that how you would go about?

All of those situations. As an example, my example of wanting to go out to eat with a girlfriend, but having just made a decision to not spend any money going out to eat, how would you approach like a practical way to solve that? Like, I understand that going deep into it to figure out what is the emotion around it and what are the dimensions, but what would be a solution?

To propel me forward without blowing the budget and without having a sulky teen.

Laureen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you’re going to. Maybe not go out to eat that night and then go blow a bunch twice as much money on something else. The

Tina: Exactly. 

Laureen: Got it. Yeah, and just laughing, thinking of all the narrative that your team would be doing inside that, what is practical? So I believe that coming back to those dimensions inside yourself is very practical. So being aware of the thoughts inside your mind, because there’s going to be this You’re going to have to put an expletive on your show. If I say what your team might have to say, right? She’s being like, you bitch.

I’m allowed to, I want to,

 I work hard. I’m a mother. I’ve done this. I’ve done that.

I get to so from a place of. Victim, right? She feels like a victim to your queen who is imposing these limits.

Tina: Yes. 

Laureen: And then 1 of the really important pieces that gets missed a lot is the body.

 I would take you through an exploration of where do you feel that in your body that rebellion that what’s that feel like, can you tap into a time in your life Tina right now when you’re feeling that. 

Tina: Yeah.

Very much so. Okay. Would you like to share about that or not?

That’s a good question.

 So here I am busting into this conversation as I edited. I’m here to explain to you what it’s about to happen. So up until this point Laureen and I have been talking about this from a very hypothetical, this kind of thing. Working through the emotions of self sabotage and how to work that out and showing some exercises that I can do. You can do, we can all do. 

Our conversation is about to shift though, because I began to have a really deep emotional response to what we’re talking about. And we actually go in and do some. 

Inner child healing on me in the moment. Is, I want you to know that that’s what’s going on. This is a part that I wasn’t entirely certain I was going to share because it felt very vulnerable in the moment. Listening to it after the fact. Um, 

It’s not as revealing as I thought it might be, but probably the reason I felt that is because it was so emotionally charged for me. So I left it in because I think it’s valuable to see how that inner child work can be done. And. How powerful it was at the end of our conversation around this. Laureen mentioned that things might happen for me for the next couple of days. And she’d love to hear more information about that. If it did. 

And I’m going to tell you as a little preview. 

 Aye. Continue to have dreams around this. And I continued to have shifts in my psyche around the healing that we just did. And. I share that because. This kind of work is so powerful. And I would just want to put a plug in for that. And also encourage you to sort of dive into the things that bug you, but you don’t know why they do it. Right. Like I had no idea when I brought up self sabotage that it was going to relate back to little five-year-old Tina. 

And listening to this conversation. I am floored. And how we went from. 

What I thought to how I shifted in just 45 minutes. It’s amazing. So I want to share that with you and. Let’s go ahead then and dive in. 

Tina: I guess I’ll share on a loose aspect of not a particular exact time or exact. Experience, but I can say that I definitely had moments of that as a teenager, as an actual teenager, when I can recall. That feeling of being controlled when I didn’t want to be or didn’t think I should be controlled.

Laureen: Can you tell us what your body sensation is?

Tina: I feel very tight.

Laureen: Where in your body?

Tina: Mostly my stomach area. My lower torso feels like it is tight, like there are like a package or something that is strapped and wants to burst free of that strapping.

Laureen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can see that. Okay. Anywhere else in your body?

Tina: Probably that feeling of constriction is also present in my Ribcage and around my chest and around like my heart and my lungs and the feeling like that.

 Like constricted pressure.

Laureen: Okay. Heart, lungs. Wow. Yeah. So all of the kind of core of you sounds like it’s in constriction and wanting to bust out.

Tina: Yes.

Laureen: All right. Thank you for sharing that. Now, if you dial that feeling up, as if it’s a radio old style radio, turn it up on the dial, turn it up to a 10. And just imagine bringing those feelings really to their.

Climax and hold on to that for me, let me know when you get it close to a 10.

Tina: I, interestingly enough, I think I, I felt like a bomb. I felt like I did get the energy that high and then it like,

I either shut it down. It feels like it went out and then back in. Does that make any sense?

Laureen: Okay. What I want you to do is just be able to capture that feeling so that we can do a little timeline lapse, look back over time, see where we can find where this is coming from. Okay, so just bring that feeling to a heightened sense and then you get that, can you look back on your timeline, see stretched out before you, your life back to when you were born probably off on your left, like a railroad track. Go back as far as you can, and I’m really encouraging you to look before you were eight years old to a time when you felt like this constriction in your core and your heart, your lungs and at the base of your torso, really feeling like something’s tied and ready to bust out. And you’re looking for feelings. It might come as images, sounds, sometimes even smells, but you don’t need to know all the specifics. Just look for a time that pops out.

Tina: \

What I actually feel and see, I can feel the emotion really strongly. What I see is a very young me in a blue flowered dress. That’s all I can really grab a hold of,

Laureen: Okay. Thank you. Do you have any idea how old you are?

Tina: probably five.

Laureen: Okay. Do you have any idea why you’re wearing the blue flower dress?

Tina: I don’t know exactly, but I know that was the dress I wore for my kindergarten school pictures.

Laureen: And this feeling is really intense there for her. The little five year old Tina, what Is there anybody else around? Can you tell us anything about what’s going on?

Tina: I don’t know exactly, but I think my brother might be there. It’s very dark. I can’t see it really.

Laureen: Okay.

Tina: But that’s probably all I can pull up right this moment.

Laureen: All right. So she’s feeling really constricted and tight in her core heart lungs she wants to bust out. What’s that coming from? Why does she like what’s going on in that moment for a five year old Tina that she feels that way?

Tina: It’s interesting. I feel very resistant to this and I’m not entirely certain if it’s because it’s something that I’m afraid to touch on or if it’s something that I don’t know that I want to put on the podcast and I’m having an internal dialogue with myself to say, just let it be because you only have to put on the podcast what feels good in the end,

Laureen: Yes, you’re the editor

 You can just chop that shit up 

Tina: right, just allow this to happen. So I’m actually in this little battle with myself on that. 

Laureen: so vulnerable Can we do anything to make it feel safer for you?

Tina: I think it was helpful to speak out what my concerns were and to remind myself that.

Laureen: You have the power

Tina: None of this has to go anywhere. And that we’ll still have a lovely episode, even if I cut something out. So I think it’s related to my brother, but I don’t know. I don’t know why exactly. Other than my relationship with my brother was sometimes challenging and that I felt like

I adored him and I knew that he loved me and that he needed me to feel emotionally safe. This is just what comes up, but that I often was also where he took out his frustration.

Laureen: Is he older or younger?

Tina: He’s older

 And he used to hold me down and tickle me against my will until I cried. To this day, I can’t stand to be tickled. Don’t tickle me.

 And so I don’t know

if he’s somehow physically restraining me or something like that. He used to also lock me upstairs, things like that.

I don’t know particularly, but I’m guessing it’s related to something like that.

Laureen: Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And we use guess. A lot where we actually mean intuition, right? So your intuition, if we were to honor what’s coming through as true for you, whether it’s true in the bigger sense of the word, doesn’t matter. It’s true for you in the moment. If we honor that as intuition as opposed to guessing we don’t need it.

We don’t need to fact check it. Because this is the thing about the subconscious, it’s not always right about its facts. What it’s right about is the feelings and the scripts, the impacts that’s going to happen as a result of that. We just allow it to know that you’re talking about a younger version of yourself who feels constricted in the core of their being might have felt like they were being held down and tickled against their will, might have felt like they were being trapped in another room.

But a lot of disempowerment there, right? Okay. And is there any significance to the blue dress, the blue flower dress? Do you like it? Do you not like it?

Tina: I think I did like it. I

think it. 

just helped me connect to the age as I think what it did. I don’t have a ton of childhood memories.

Laureen: Yeah. 

Tina: That’s what I, my intuition is telling me,

Laureen: Yeah. Awesome. And you know, it can be really scary when we’re talking about family members and those family members are still alive and we still engage with them and maybe we even really like them, but there might’ve been something that your subconscious made out of a prior situation that it’s now using to keep you from moving forward. As resistance and self sabotage.

Tina: right, whoa.

Laureen: It doesn’t matter if it’s true. No. And truth is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, especially when you’re going back in decades. So here’s what I want to ask little five year old Tina. Is there anything about that feeling in that scenario that she is making it mean about her?

Like the fact that she feels constricted and powerless.

Tina: Somehow that she’s both not enough and that she’s too much.

Laureen: Yeah. Interesting. Does she make that mean anything about the world? Her experience there?

Tina: I don’t know if it’s related to that experience, but

a belief] I’ve worked through from my childhood is that women are both

too much and not enough 

in a way, 

Laureen: And what about other people? Her feeling of being constricted, being held down, maybe being locked in another room and feeling like she’s holding it in and wants to bust out through her core. Does that experience mean anything to her about other people?

Tina: other than the other people have the power.

Laureen: Okay. 

Tina: I don’t know. Other than that.

Laureen: Okay. You do know that’s a knowing and I say that with so much love because you do know, I don’t know is our, again, subconscious mind way of trying to throw our conscious mind off the scent. You do know. Okay. Okay. So I take it that other people have the power I am too much and not enough at the same time and generally women are too much and not enough at the same time.

So a couple of things here for your listeners. We are meaning making machines. Okay. We make meaning out of everything that happens to us. Our subconscious does, and it makes up meaning. So just knowing that and acknowledging that. And then the other thing is that. And most people may know this, but before you’re seven, you’re like a sponge.

So you actually just take in all the things that are happening to you and around you and they become your subconscious memories and beliefs. They form everything that you’re going to be and for the next rest of your life, unless you go back and rewire those. So here we are, we’ve related what’s going on for you now back to this five year old self who feels a lot of disempowerment, which you identified earlier on when we were talking in the conscious mind around the thoughts and the feelings and the body sensations, even the energy.

Tina: Yeah.

Laureen: If you were to now, we’re going to talk with what is the originating teenage resistance, the five year old and your higher self queen now. So does your five year old, if she could say anything to you now, what would she say? Does she have any messages that she wants to tell us?

Tina: Tell them no is what

Laureen: Tell them no. Awesome. Tell them no. Yeah. And I’m going to just Acknowledge that’s out. Gee, I’m getting a sensation from you of maybe you might want to cry and it’s a lot. So just let that roll through. It’s okay. It’s okay. Yeah. I’m actually getting a body sensation over here from you and this is yeah, so it’s pretty powerful.

It’s it goes through the zoom even, right?


Laureen: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a pretty powerful, intense feeling. Tell them no. Okay. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Little Tina for sharing that. Is there anything else she wants to share? Okay. Yeah. That’s a lot. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and your realness. So good. You’re not alone. You’re not alone. now If we just switch into the present and imagine your most sovereign highest self as you are, what would you say back to little Tina? What message would you send back through time to her?

Tina: I hear you and I witnessed you and I’ve got you

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: and I will tell them no.

Laureen: Yeah. Thank you. Would you like to do anything? Like I’m feeling like, would you like to hug her?

Tina: Yeah.

Laureen: Yeah. Give her a great big hug and your mind send back the love and the hugs and the I got yous. I hear you. I am here for you. I got you. Yeah. And maybe while we’re there, even tell her that we’re going to grow up.

And we’re going to be strong and we’re going to be okay. I’m going to take care of you, Yeah. So if you can find a way to, to part ways with her that feels complete for you and for her, and then we’ll step back into the present.

How does that feel?

Tina: It feels good. I had a moment when I first the emotion I felt around when she told me to tell them no was intense. As you noticed, it was a very big powerful and it felt very freeing. And then

right now, I have a tightness in my upper back.

Because it’s like I clamped down onto something. It feels like right after I had this, I felt like it’s. Not as constricted as I felt everywhere else in my body, not as I’m going to explode as I felt, but 

Laureen: So now you’re carrying a bit of burden maybe on your back. Would you like to do the next part of the exercise? It won’t take too long, but I would love to complete it for you.

You okay with that? All right. And this one’s easier. You’ve done the hard work. And I appreciate the hard work you’ve done.

What we’re going to do is we’re going to go back to little Tina and I want you to. Close your eyes and step into her. So you’re going to imagine you’re getting into her taking up space inside her body. So you put your fingers and her finger holes and toes and toe holes and see with her eyes.

So you are her. And I want you to imagine that this feeling of power and tell them no, that intense, Power that you felt come through and infuse that. Like for me, I see it as a ball of light, like that starts somewhere usually around my heart for you. It might be a different sensation, but I want you to infuse the, her body her whole body, fill it up with that.

And imagine filling your whole self up right down to your cells, your DNA with that sense of power and Saying the no, breathing it into her. Beautiful. I love how you’re breathing. Yeah, so good. So now I want you to grow yourself up in that space of empowerment that you have right now. Imagine little Tina growing up from the five year old in the blue flower dress. You can grow her up from then to now, your current age, in any way that feels You know, for you, but some people go by decades.

Some people go from significant events, seeing her in her power, in her know, growing up and take your time. You may find that there are some events that take a little longer to go through where you might imagine them occurring differently. Because she is in her power, she’s in her know. She’s also supported by your higher self. She’s not alone. And then you come to your current time. Beautiful. Now, trust that subconscious rewiring, rewriting will continue to work underneath the conscious over the coming days. You may have dreams, you may have some things come through that are a little bit different than they have been in the past.

And this is how we play with and move through the subconscious beliefs. And so I would be curious to hear from you in the future, in the next few days, how, if anything shifts,

Tina: Yeah,

Laureen: do you feel any shifts right now?

Tina: I feel more grounded and at peace than I had. I shared with Laureen before this podcast began that I’d had a pretty strange week full of sort of emotional upheaval. And I feel honestly what it was full of is it was full of indecision about something.

 And so this experience is somewhat related to that.

It’s very interesting. And I feel much more at ease with it than 

I did. 

Laureen: that’s wonderful. Ah, so good. Thank you so much for doing that work.

Tina: thank you for doing it. It was. It’s so powerful. And I you are blessed as a person, as a mentor to lead through that journey. I feel very similar to what I felt years ago when I did the heart of the heroine with you. And I am so grateful to have you here on the podcast and to have you share that with my listeners and to have you share the beautiful work that you do.

I just want to thank you.

Laureen: Oh, you’re so welcome. Yeah, it’s my pleasure. It really is. well, you know, When you’re in your element, how good it feels, right? And that’s what this feels like for me. And there there are a lot of different aspects to it. So it’s hard to talk about in the. Hypothetical. So I really appreciate you stepping into that example and, you know, being that vulnerable and making it such a powerful experience.

It’s really about you healing yourself with a little bit of guidance and a lot of compassion. And hopefully you’ll take that self compassion into your days. 

Tina: I keep being struck with it. So I go back to the original question that we were talking about the idea

of In our faux example there like that. I have set a budget and I want to go out with my friend and she has asked and we went through all of this. What I have come to through this as well is the idea that.

Somewhere in there, obviously, there are lots of other solutions to get the feeling of connection that I want to have with my friends, right? I can invite her to my home for dinner. I could say, let’s have a picnic, which I love. I could say, let’s just get together and walk, right? So in my scenario, there are other ways to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

And it came up in my subconscious as we were walking through this, that I didn’t want to own that piece of it and ask her to change what we were doing so that it could still fit into my goals,

Laureen: Wow. 

Tina: It’s like this sense of worth, right? The sense of being able to take up space and being able to say what if we did this differently?

And then my rebellious aspect could still have the fun I wanted to have while staying within my budget, right? That there are other ways to make that It’s the same compromise you were talking earlier, like how do you work it so that they can both have it and through this conversation, I was realizing, because you mentioned something about boundaries earlier, and that anger is almost always a boundary violation.

so I was. Rather than set a boundary of, I would love to get together with you, but I don’t want to spend the money going 

out to eat rather than hold that boundary of my own. In my example, I’m like letting her push through it unbeknownst to her. She has no idea she’s pushing through it, but I let her push through it because I don’t want to keep that boundary tight.

Laureen: but look how fluid your your solution is. Like you asked me earlier what would I suggest as practical um, solutions? And I love that. Once we go through this, you can come up with your own fluid solutions because I could suggest to you when you’re in resistance,

um, Resistance slash victim slash self sabotage, I could suggest to you 100 different ways to do it and you would resist them all, right?

If you wanted to or you would eventually resist them all. So what happens is in this yeah. In this work, you actually open up so much more space yeah, the resistance isn’t really there anymore because you’ve completely changed the dynamics,

Tina: And I can feel that even in our sort of pretend situation as far as the dinner with a friend, I can feel that I feel all of a sudden. I’m like, that could be really fun. I can very much enjoy that. And I would also stay within my budget. And I would be able to have a good time. So Absolutely right that without having worked through all of those dynamics and all of the dimensions of myself.

I was just, because of course I have that knowledge beforehand. I couldn’t access it per se, but I had it like, I definitely have read enough books to be like if you don’t feel like doing it, do this instead. And I’m like, yeah, whatever. I’m not doing that either.

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: Yeah.

Laureen: You have your own solutions as they say, all the answers are within you. But when we’re so stuck on that, and it’s to be fair, it’s a lot of energy behind it, and it is infusing everything we’re doing and from a lot of different layers.

But when, if we can completely shift that. Then the rest comes through with so much more ease and there really isn’t any resistance anymore You can have her over and go skinny dipping and whatever

Tina: to Tiffany at the same time.

Laureen: Listen to Tiffany have a picnic and go skinny dipping and it won’t cost you anything

Tina: Exactly. So I’ve been working in this on things like this for a long time, right? But I’m always struck by how powerful it is to do this kind of work with a guide with a safe, loving heart to lead you because. I’ve done a little bit of childhood, healing my inner child work through like a recorded meditation, and it’s been powerful.

It has been, but not to the level of what you and I just did. And I don’t know that I could have. Reached it one because you were able to see what I was doing and dig a little bit deeper to like just circumnavigate a little bit of my resistance right because I had resistance very much so to going in and I just to plug I guess the beauty of Being in community and helping one another Through in a safe space like the power of that.

I am so struck by that right this moment.

Laureen: Yeah, I know. I know the sweetness of it is almost, oh it’s so beautiful and we don’t acknowledge it very often. That self compassion, that compassion for each other. It’s really powerful.

Tina: It is. 

Laureen: I need safe space for it to be like, I have not always been this comfortable being in this.

Much vulnerability this is probably 8 years in the making because we have all those armor I had a lot of armor on 8 years ago and it’s not safe everywhere, but when you can get in that flow of that, it’s like, when you’re making your. Your maker things it’s oh, it’s just the flow.

It feels so good. And we connect on such a different level. And that’s where my heart is. That’s where my my soul is. And I said about the soul piece if there were a soul resistance you would know it because it would come up for you. Like it would be a part of your story. So the spirit or the soul, what or how something a higher piece, right?

What I’m talking about. I have a post a little poster diagram of the six senses of self. 

Tina: So we’ll link to that in the show notes and then people can become part of your community as well

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: and see the beautiful work that you’re doing in the world.

Laureen: Oh, thank you. And I do lots more like this inside the Awakened Woman’s community too. 

Tina: I always ask my guests, Two questions. Number one is what do you do on a sort of daily ish basis that brings vibrancy into your life because one of the premises for the podcast Is that we have more autonomy than maybe we believe to bring vibrant joy into our lives, whatever our situations.

And so I like to talk about what people do whatever that might be. And then I also ask everyone what they believe or what they wish everyone knew deep in their hearts that they think maybe they don’t.

Laureen: going to start with the last 1 1st, because yeah I believe that we are all. So magnificent I look at you, I look at. Anybody I encounter and I see your magnificence, it just shines so bright. And we don’t know how magnificent we are and we’ve always been magnificent.

We don’t need to be or do anything. We all have been taught that you need to work hard, you need to be this, you need to be that, you just need to be who you are and you’re magnificent for no other reason. Because you are, and the first question, what do I do daily for vibrancy? 

Tina: Or regularly. How’s that?

Laureen: regularly for the last 15, almost 16 years, my, Kundalini yoga practice has been a really grounding factor for me as well as creating vibrancy because it, it involves physical movement, chanting and mantra and breath work. So it’s it’s got a lot of elements to it that I really enjoy.

I started doing that when I was in postpartum depression, six months after my second child was born. And I honestly feel like it saved my life. So we’ll plug for that. If you find a good practitioner in yoga, it’s always helpful. So I do that. Regularly, like it’s part of my lifestyle now and I guess attuning to myself, like it sounds so simple and yet I acknowledge that it has taken me a while to get to this place where I actually attune to myself all the time.

Tina: Great.

Laureen: No matter how hectic the world is around me or what kind of shit show is going on, what’s going on for me. What does that mean for me in this moment? And that’s where I use those six dimensions of self to come back to what I’m experiencing. I really think that’s powerful for vibrancy.

I don’t know how you be vibrant without attuning back to yourself all the time over and over again.

Tina: right. You wish for it to be a one and done, but it just, it is not. And why would it be? Honestly 

Laureen: Yeah.

Tina: you have to sweep the floor every day. It isn’t a one and done. We are constantly in flux.

Laureen: Yeah. And it’s like yoga itself, right? You fall out of the pose. It’s not like you’re not going to be perfectly in your pose all the time. You fall out and then you get back in, you fall out and you get back in. So it’s the practice of getting back in you’re going to fall out.

And I am far from perfect, but I keep coming back to it. 

Tina: Very nice. 

Laureen: Breath work has been a big deal too, right? So the breath work, it’s amazing how much peace you can get from three long deep breaths.

Tina: isn’t it?

Laureen: Absolutely.

Tina: . How can the folks that are listening, how can they find out more about you? Where can they get information? I’ll have things in the show notes, but if they want to go directly to your spots on the interweb, where would they go?

Laureen: Okay. So Facebook is where I reside most and you can reach me there at the group, the awakened woman’s evolution group. It’s uh, free. Group to join and if you meet the qualifications of the questions your conscious quasi midlife woman, I say quasi because there’s like this.

A few years on either side, who knows what midlife even is, but come and join us there. That’s where most of my energy is put. And my personal profile is Laureen Nowlan-Card. Let’s see. And I do have a website. It is my name. ca. And I also have a podcast that is called women leading change, and that’s available on iTunes and probably all the other places too. 

Tina: Excellent. Thank you again and have a wonderful night.

Laureen: Thank

you, Tina.

And that. Is it for our show today. Thank you so much for. We’re listening. Thanks for being on this ride with me. Again, I knew what. Was going to be powerful. I did. I did not realize. How deep it was going to go or how vulnerable i was going To feel and And If it’s to that But I. i am grateful To be able to share that with you and I’m grateful To be able to 

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